Tags
canvassing, censorship, ex-Mormon, Ex-Mormon subreddit, John Dehlin, John Parkinson Dehlin, Meat Puppetry, reddit, Wikipedia
John Dehlin recently posted a curious appeal on reddit, specifically the ex-Mormon subreddit, often the site of curious interactions and discourse [1]. Here is the text of what he wrote, as well as a link to the original:
Reddit Exmos – Please save my wikipedia page from LDS/apologist propaganda (self.exmormon)
submitted 13 hours ago * by johndehlin
Apologists have hijacked the first part of my Wikipedia page. It seriously reads like a propaganda memo from FAIR — quoting Church PR and Scott Gordon in the opening section? Seriously? So frustrating. My understanding is that it’s against Wikipedia rules to edit one’s own Wikipedia page. Consequently, I would love some Reddit Exmo support if anyone is willing/able to help out. I guarantee the person making those edits works either for FAIR or for the LDS Church in some capacity. Ugh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dehlin
Here are some good places to reference for starters:
My own side of the story:
The transcript from my interview w/ Bryan King:
NY Times Articles:
RadioWest and SLTrib Content:
http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/john-dehlin-and-lds-church
http://www.sltrib.com/home/2085731-155/trib-talk-john-dehlin-on-mormon
John notes that editing one’s own Wikipedia page is against Wikipedia’s policy, and he is right as you can see by reading the page on conflicts of interest. However, this same policy bars Wikipedians from contributing to articles about their friends, which makes the request sketchy based on the expected social associations of the individuals being solicited to help, if they are indeed his friends. If they are not, in fact, his friends, but are only being recruited by Dehlin to make his Wikipedia entry better reflect what John wishes it to say about him (see the link for more on John’s tendency toward censorship) then what is occurring is in fact referred to as “meat-puppetry,” which is also against Wikipedia’s policy. Concerning meat-puppetry, the relevant Wikipedia article states: “Meatpuppetry is soliciting other people to come to Wikipedia in order to influence the editorial process in a topic or discussion.” It goes on to say:
The following behaviors are examples of what constitutes meat puppetry:
Asking another editor to support your position in a dispute. For example:
- In a content dispute in an article Talk page
- In a deletion dispute related to an WP:Articles for deletion
- In an issue under discussion at a noticeboard such as WP:ANI
Asking another person to create a Wikipedia account for the purpose of supporting your own position in a dispute
Assembling a group of editors with the purpose of resolving an on-going dispute in a certain way
What John is doing may also overlap with Canvassing, as described in a related article. However, the point at which this whole situation gets (in my opinion) really interesting isn’t so much in John’s request as when the various ex-Mormon redditors investigate his claims and find that they are factually incorrect. You will please note John’s comment that
“Apologists have hijacked the first part of my Wikipedia page. It seriously reads like a propaganda memo from FAIR — quoting Church PR and Scott Gordon in the opening section? Seriously? So frustrating.”
and
“I guarantee the person making those edits works either for FAIR or for the LDS Church in some capacity.” In response one experienced editor writes:
John, I took a very close look at the page history going back to September 2013 and I’m going to be honest with you: you have some experienced exmormon Wikipedians who have been babysitting the page that whole time, making sure that inexperienced and overly-apologetics-focused editors have their edits reverted quickly and with clear explanations. There’s one experienced editor who has added two problematic things (the Gordon quote and the line about your sexual orientation), but he’s also adding a lot of helpful stuff. He’s an experienced user who is trusted (and even asked for help) by the exmormon editors watching your page, and he’s definitely not working for FAIR or for the church. I think he was probably not paying attention to how those two edits read when he added them. They definitely read poorly and they’ve been removed now.
As far as including in the lead section the reasons the church gave for your excommunication, that was added by a different wikipedian, one who self-identifies as LDS but who (from his post history) definitely doesn’t seem to be working for FAIR or for the church. Having that info in the lead actually seems appropriate to me, since the lead is supposed to be a quick summary of the article and that is fairly important information in the article. That part of the lead has now been balanced out with what you said about the church’s real reasons for the excommunication, and I’m hoping you’re ok with how it reads now. If you aren’t, please alert me or one of the experienced wikipedians who have been been watching your page, and we can get a group of experienced users together to address any remaining problems.
TL;DR: Stay calm, your page is NOT being hijacked by apologists. There were definitely some problems though. They’ve been addressed now, and any further input you have is welcomed.
John Dehlin can now rest with a little bit more security knowing that the article he thought was written by his ideological opponents (FAIR or unnamed Church employees) was in fact written by ex-Mormons, and was in fact being babysat by them the whole time, and still appalled him. This should probably be a cautionary tale about his use of overly confident language for subjects where he has no real information. This should probably also serve as a cautionary tale to those who rely on the internet for neutral point of view information about John Dehlin that his efforts to censor viewpoints about himself that do not conform to his particular desired image often involve the efforts of a significant number of individuals helping to do the scrubbing.
[1] Not unlike Mos Eisley spaceport, this particular internet domain is well-known as a “wretched hive of scum and villainy.”
Jordan Latimer said:
If you look at the history page, you can certainly see a sudden spike in activity on the 21st of May:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Dehlin&action=history
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Ordain Women Exposed said:
Many thanks for your well written articles. We will repost them on http://www.ordainwomenexposed.org and tweet them @owexposed.
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Jay said:
Wow. How does one get reported for “meat puppetry”?
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Brandon said:
“Seriously? So frustrating.”, “I guarantee…”, “Ugh”. Was this written by a grown, PhD man or an emotionally manipulative adolescent?
His request makes for a very “inauthentic” Wikipedia page. (note: ‘authentic’ is a buzz word that people of his ilk love to use and abuse)
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Andrew Harris said:
Great article Mr Hales Swift….thank you….
A.H.
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Kevin Christensen said:
Hey Toto, nice work on the curtain. But good luck with getting Dehlin to ever acknowledge the image making man revealed as operating behind it.
Sad situation. A bit mesmerizing, like an unfolding tragedy.
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MAC said:
I don’t know if you’re still blogging about John. Another post could be at his actions with this rumor that Elder Scott was defecting. John was quick to perpetuate a rumor that was 99.9% likely to be false. He threw it out there to see if anyone could confirm its truthfulness – knowing full well that his primary followers would latch on and salivate like Pavlov’s dogs at the possibility that an apostle might defect. That’s what John is so good at – ringing the anti mormon bell to then sit back and watch contention and doubt spread. Then when the report is confirmed to be untrue, he can say how skeptical he was but that one day it will happen.
He did the same thing when he thought Glenn Beck was going through a faith crisis. He leaped in like a vulture to spread that lie and was eager to get him on the podcast. It was untrue, but it that’s never stopped John from jumping to a conclusion or spreading a doubt promoting rumor based on little (or partial) facts.
John will ring the bell again, his followers will salivate while he watches from the background. He clearly enjoys his role of being a sower of doubt.
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Robert F. Smith said:
The paranoia and hypocrisy are palpable.
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Sarah Tanner said:
Why did your posts suddenly stop? I hope this is only a temporary hiatus.
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dearjohndehlin said:
It’s more of an intermittent thing. Rate of posts depends at least partially on the rate at which comment-worthy events occur, understandably.
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Cam said:
How about another post? He went on a rant today about how he’s not a bully and is not trying to pull people away from the church. Both are up for debate. Just in the last week, he encouraged people to publicly shame Jamesthemormon for his song without knowing anything about James or his motives. John used the inaccurate and hyperbolic accusation that James was “gaslighting”. John’s followers respond and James apologizes with further explanation as to who is is. John proclaims victory but never corrects the record or apologizes to James for mischaracterizing him or for using a serious term when it clearly without knowing anything about James or reaching out to him first. It seems like John is the one trying to start the culture war he also accused James of. For being a Dr and counselor, John is incredibly reckless in matters like this.
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